"Berry speaks about the sympathy he feels for Confederate soldiers. How does his position sway or dissway you from a viewpoint you have? Another way to look at this question is Berry's consideration of patriotism and nationalism from the Civil War."
Stacy, this question you pose at the end of the essay hit home, just as did reading Chapter V and Berry's earlier recounting of the difficult choice Lee had to make in going home to Virginia. The history of the Civil War that I grew up with was written in black and white, or should I say blue and grey. Two sides, one right, one wrong. When I first came to Maine, I was shocked to find in the Camden town square a statue of a Union soldier dedicated to 'The War of the Rebellion," as if it had been a problem so minor and so easily fixed.
I'd never thought about what it would be like to have one's native land invaded, and what one would be forced to do to defend the small farms and towns that made up most of the South. Sherman's March to the Sea and then through the Carolinas was a horror. And in the end, we are left with persistent racial and economic inequality, of industry defeating agriculture. I will be reading Chapter VIII, "Work," with an eye toward possible solutions, because there is still so much work to be done.
This chapter (I think it was this chapter - 😉) provided me with a different perspective - the one of defending. It is such a quarrelsome inquiry and correlates with Dan's comment, how do we/why do we choose to defend or to retreat.
Likewise, I grew up understanding the Civil War the same way you mention, and the patriotism/nationalism examples Berry provides are quite informative as a new perspective to interrogate.
What I'd initially intended as a comment turned into an essay, which you'll see soon enough over on my Substack. This kind of community you've fledged makes Substack very worthwhile for me, so thank you heaps.
Regarding a captive workforce, I will let this recent NPR news item suffice
"Amazon workers in North Carolina have voted against unionizing as the retail giant once again prevailed in its fight against labor organizing. Around 4,300 workers at a warehouse in Garner, N.C., a suburb of Raleigh, were eligible to cast ballots over the past week. They voted whether to join the grassroots union called Carolina Amazonians United for Solidarity and Empowerment, or CAUSE.
Workers voted nearly 3-to-1 against unionizing. Federal labor officials' tally showed 829 votes in favor and 2,447 votes against, with 77 ballots set aside as challenged by either the union or the company. Union organizers, who are current and former workers, said they would push for higher wages, more reliable hours, better safety measures and other changes. They faced a staunch opposition campaign by Amazon, which has long fought off efforts to organize its packers, delivery drivers and other employees... "
As I read this article in light of our conversation I ask myself, How would I have voted? Would I have had the courage to stand against the hostile giant? Since I often get cheap stuff that passes through this distribution center, am I part of the problem?
_____________________________________
Additional information regarding Amazon's anti-union tactics...
"Amazon is also appealing a November ruling by a federal labor judge that ordered a third union election — a re-redo — at a warehouse in Alabama. In the original 2021 vote, workers overwhelmingly rejected the union. U.S. labor officials later found Amazon illegally influenced the result. The second election's results remained too close to call for over two years, as the union and the company accused each other of breaking labor laws.
Amazon workers and federal labor investigators have filed numerous complaints alleging labor-law violations and illegal union-busting tactics by the company, which Amazon has denied and legally challenged. In fact, one of the company's lawsuits has questioned the very existence of the National Labor Relations Board, arguing its structure violates the Constitution."
Dan, you share a prime example. What has allowed us to get to this point - is it a desperate need for the employment? At what point will the working class rise and demand better or is that an impossibility because so many are paycheck to paycheck, barely holding on, can't afford the rising costs? Better yet, an unanswerable question, why do certain employers feel that it is acceptable to treat humans this way, as lesser than. Is living in a multi-million-dollar home, hob knobbing with a better class of superficiality really that much better?
Having finished the book a couple of weeks ago, I am not sure I recall what Berry had to say in these particular chapters, and it's hard to focus on it when the current reality is so fucking bad. @farmergeorgiewrites is putting up a very thorough accounting of the ways Musk's gutting of the federal government agencies and funding are directly detrimental to farmers. I'd urge everyone to follow that. I am sure Berry again had valid points I agreed with, and that I lost sight of them behind his lack of inclusivity, which is becoming standard MB-reads-Berry at this point. Also I'm bowing out of looking back at what quotes I saved since I had to move ahead to next week's essay. Hope everyone is hanging in there this week.
Also, directly detrimental to our public lands, the safety of our food sources, and our water sources - the list is long and likely still to grow.
Maybe this quote will be helpful. "We can only acknowledge that freedom counts for very little if the free, black and white, have no viable economic choices." (266) And with sadness, "All of us help to cause and continue it, and all of us suffer from it." (288)
From Robin Wall Kimmerer, in Serviceberry, "We've created a system such that we self-identify as consumers first before understanding ourselves as ecosystem citizens." (74)
"Berry speaks about the sympathy he feels for Confederate soldiers. How does his position sway or dissway you from a viewpoint you have? Another way to look at this question is Berry's consideration of patriotism and nationalism from the Civil War."
Stacy, this question you pose at the end of the essay hit home, just as did reading Chapter V and Berry's earlier recounting of the difficult choice Lee had to make in going home to Virginia. The history of the Civil War that I grew up with was written in black and white, or should I say blue and grey. Two sides, one right, one wrong. When I first came to Maine, I was shocked to find in the Camden town square a statue of a Union soldier dedicated to 'The War of the Rebellion," as if it had been a problem so minor and so easily fixed.
I'd never thought about what it would be like to have one's native land invaded, and what one would be forced to do to defend the small farms and towns that made up most of the South. Sherman's March to the Sea and then through the Carolinas was a horror. And in the end, we are left with persistent racial and economic inequality, of industry defeating agriculture. I will be reading Chapter VIII, "Work," with an eye toward possible solutions, because there is still so much work to be done.
This chapter (I think it was this chapter - 😉) provided me with a different perspective - the one of defending. It is such a quarrelsome inquiry and correlates with Dan's comment, how do we/why do we choose to defend or to retreat.
Likewise, I grew up understanding the Civil War the same way you mention, and the patriotism/nationalism examples Berry provides are quite informative as a new perspective to interrogate.
What I'd initially intended as a comment turned into an essay, which you'll see soon enough over on my Substack. This kind of community you've fledged makes Substack very worthwhile for me, so thank you heaps.
I'm so excited about this. I appreciate more and more that on Substack we are open to read, then write a response because it keeps us involved.
Crooked Roots is where it’s at. 👍
Regarding a captive workforce, I will let this recent NPR news item suffice
"Amazon workers in North Carolina have voted against unionizing as the retail giant once again prevailed in its fight against labor organizing. Around 4,300 workers at a warehouse in Garner, N.C., a suburb of Raleigh, were eligible to cast ballots over the past week. They voted whether to join the grassroots union called Carolina Amazonians United for Solidarity and Empowerment, or CAUSE.
Workers voted nearly 3-to-1 against unionizing. Federal labor officials' tally showed 829 votes in favor and 2,447 votes against, with 77 ballots set aside as challenged by either the union or the company. Union organizers, who are current and former workers, said they would push for higher wages, more reliable hours, better safety measures and other changes. They faced a staunch opposition campaign by Amazon, which has long fought off efforts to organize its packers, delivery drivers and other employees... "
As I read this article in light of our conversation I ask myself, How would I have voted? Would I have had the courage to stand against the hostile giant? Since I often get cheap stuff that passes through this distribution center, am I part of the problem?
_____________________________________
Additional information regarding Amazon's anti-union tactics...
"Amazon is also appealing a November ruling by a federal labor judge that ordered a third union election — a re-redo — at a warehouse in Alabama. In the original 2021 vote, workers overwhelmingly rejected the union. U.S. labor officials later found Amazon illegally influenced the result. The second election's results remained too close to call for over two years, as the union and the company accused each other of breaking labor laws.
Amazon workers and federal labor investigators have filed numerous complaints alleging labor-law violations and illegal union-busting tactics by the company, which Amazon has denied and legally challenged. In fact, one of the company's lawsuits has questioned the very existence of the National Labor Relations Board, arguing its structure violates the Constitution."
https://www.npr.org/2025/02/15/nx-s1-5298055/amazon-union-vote-north-carolina-warehouse-workers
Dan, you share a prime example. What has allowed us to get to this point - is it a desperate need for the employment? At what point will the working class rise and demand better or is that an impossibility because so many are paycheck to paycheck, barely holding on, can't afford the rising costs? Better yet, an unanswerable question, why do certain employers feel that it is acceptable to treat humans this way, as lesser than. Is living in a multi-million-dollar home, hob knobbing with a better class of superficiality really that much better?
Having finished the book a couple of weeks ago, I am not sure I recall what Berry had to say in these particular chapters, and it's hard to focus on it when the current reality is so fucking bad. @farmergeorgiewrites is putting up a very thorough accounting of the ways Musk's gutting of the federal government agencies and funding are directly detrimental to farmers. I'd urge everyone to follow that. I am sure Berry again had valid points I agreed with, and that I lost sight of them behind his lack of inclusivity, which is becoming standard MB-reads-Berry at this point. Also I'm bowing out of looking back at what quotes I saved since I had to move ahead to next week's essay. Hope everyone is hanging in there this week.
Also, directly detrimental to our public lands, the safety of our food sources, and our water sources - the list is long and likely still to grow.
Maybe this quote will be helpful. "We can only acknowledge that freedom counts for very little if the free, black and white, have no viable economic choices." (266) And with sadness, "All of us help to cause and continue it, and all of us suffer from it." (288)
@Bee Lilyjones shares her comments on Chapters VI and VII.
https://beelilyjones.substack.com/p/beyond-moral-victories-a-british
From Robin Wall Kimmerer, in Serviceberry, "We've created a system such that we self-identify as consumers first before understanding ourselves as ecosystem citizens." (74)